Tony's Review Mag Interview

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Tony Turner has worked with some of Motown Records greatest recording
artists. They include both The Supremes and The Temptations. As road
manager for those acts, Tony had the best job in town or did he?
Recently The Review was able to take a journey down memory lane as Tony
Turner talked to us about his time with people such as Diana Ross, Mary
Wilson, and the artists that made Michigan an internationally known
epicenter for entertainment.
The Supremes

Review: Were you a fan that was hanging out and Mary Wilson offered you
a job?
Turner: No. Actually, I was born & lived in New York. It was fate. To
make a long story short, I happened to be wandering around 34th Street
and 5th Avenue when I was 12 years old at the corner where the B. Altman
Department store once stood. I decided to take a peak inside of this
huge magnificent store because I was a kid from Harlem and had never
been inside a store of that caliber.
As I went into the vestibule of that store I ran into Florence Ballard.
She was talking and grappling with 25 shopping bags full of things she
had just bought, and simply asked me to help get her packages from that
point out to the curb so she could hail a taxi. That was my first
encounter with The Supremes.
She started weaving this long intricate story of how she was going to be
on Ed Sullivan. Of course I didn't believe her. She explained that she
was a singer and had I ever heard of the Supremes, and that she lived in
Detroit and had been to Europe. She was quite talkative. I was not a fan
of The Supremes, had never heard of Motown, and knew nothing about
Detroit, so my introduction was completely by accident. It was a classic
case of being in the right place at the right time.
Review: You put up with an awful lot of verbal abuse, didn't you?
Turner: Well, I had been around Motown people for so long, since the age
of 12, that you get used to a certain amount of abuse. I would say it
was more like a parent with a child. Your father or mother scolds you
but still you really love them and know they don't really mean it.
If you were thin-skinned you could never last at Motown. Even in the
early days there was always this attitude that they were the stars. They
were bred on that old Hollywood system that to be a star you act like a
star, so I basically ignored it.
It's not glamorous work when you're doing it, but it is glamorous to
people outside the profession. It makes you a star in your everyday
life, no matter what you do if you become known as Tony Turner the Road
Manager for Diana Ross. People want to know you because of who you work
for and it brings the employee a certain amount of snob appeal.
Review: I recall hearing something about a school in New York City that
taught a person how to be a road manager. Is that something that can be
taught?
Turner: Oh, believe me, it is an art. Road managing in my opinion is
nothing more than being a babysitter for adults. You have to possess
good organizational and people skills. You have to be thick-skinned and
a 'proven' person. You have to be able to change things on a moment's
notice. It's like being a schoolteacher and taking a class out on a
field trip.

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Some groups are easier to manage than others are. I didn't go to school
for formal training other than Motown. I learned simply by being there
since the age of 12 and watching others do it. But in developing your
skills as a road manager, you have to know a lot about the travel agency
business and ways to get your seats on planes that are fully booked. You
need to know ways to get hotels, limos, know the right restaurants in
different cities, and basically keep good contact as you travel around
the world. Plus, you have to build up a good file of contacts, because
chances are you will be going back to that city.
Promoters can be terrible crooks and very deceitful people, so you are
in charge of a great deal of money that you have to collect. You are
also in charge of payroll and I've found that sometimes musicians can be
worse to work for than the stars themselves.
However, you have to be almost like a union delegate. You have to keep
your band appeased, because once you get a band that is completely crazy
and wild, they can cause major problems. Being a road manager is not for
everybody. You get very little sleep and all kinds of abuse. Everything
that could possibly happen is your entire fault. Plus you have to be up
hours before the star and hours after the star.
Review: Let us say there had never been a Motown. Would a CBS or MCA
have signed an act like The Supremes or The Temptations?
Turner: Well, you had The Shirelles. You had The Chantels. Earlier you
had The Coasters and The Cadillacs, so you did have some black groups
that had some prominence before Motown.
I would confidently say that without Berry Gordy, good luck, and the
Grace of God none of this would have happened. There's been no place
like Motown since and I doubt there ever will be a company in one
location that would churn that many people basically out from the same
neighborhood. It was simply sheer luck.
Without Motown I believe some of the Motown stars would have become
stars on their own at other companies, but I don't think we would have
had a Supremes, per se. I do not think we would have had a Temptations.
I think people with lesser talent like Otis Williams (Temptations) and
Mary Wilson (Supremes) would not have ever become stars had they not
been in a group situation.
Review: There's an old Motown saying, 'Good manners can take you places
money cannot.'
Turner: Indeed.
Review: Like where?
Turner: Good manners can take you anywhere you want
to go in the world. People like people who are nice and have good
manners and are cordial. They remember people that way.
If you are a multi-millionaire but just a despicable person, eventually
the doors will close on you.
Diana Ross has tons of money. She's a millionaire, of course. There are
people that will not deal with her because of her attitude and manners.
So although she has the money, there are certain stores & restaurants
that do not want her business. They won't put up with the theatrics, the
special requests, and the rudeness. So that is one lesson she did not
learn
Review: Of all the Motown artists, it seems that Diana Ross was the
smartest when it came to business matters. Is that why other Motown
artists disliked her?

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Review: David Ruffin of The Temptations once said Mary Wilson of The
Supremes was trash.
Turner: David Ruffin was right. If you go back to how she carried
herself privately, she was a woman that everyone at Motown had slept
with, so she was a party girl, so to speak.
By her own admission, in her own book, she said when Gordy told her she
made herself 'too available' that she 'liked to be out.' She's a party
girl. That's not to say she's trash per se. She likes men. David Ruffin
liked women. So there was a double standard there. A gentleman back in
the sixties & seventies was a Hugh Hefner playboy. A woman was a tramp,
a slut, a whore, and that's how David Ruffin looked at her.
To the outside world The Supremes were the epitome of Black Womanhood,
but to the insiders they were considered Black Barbie Dolls.
People didn't know for years that Mary Wilson met with Tom Jones, Flip
Wilson, Steve McQueen and David Frost - a string of prominent men inside
& outside of Motown. She was beautiful and men liked her, and she liked
men. But, David was right - she was trashy.
Review: Yet Mary appeared on Robin Leach's Lifestyles of the Rich &
Famous, so her financial condition must have been pretty good.
Turner: After she wrote Dream Girl: My Life With The Supremes she made
quite a bit of money and immediately took most of it and bought a house.
She bought an English Tudor for about $600,000. She continued to work
and fell on some hard times and sold that and moved to Washington.
I understand that she rented a plane and was living in Las Vegas. She is
a person like the rest of America who has to work. Mary Wilson is not in
a position to retire.
She called me at my home in Long Island and said, 'Oh, I'm going to be
interviewed for The Rich & Famous. I said that was fabulous and that
they sometimes interviewed people on location or in a hotel suite and
asked where they were going to conduct the interview.
She said, 'At Home'. I went completely crazy. I said you couldn't have
Robin Leach interview you in that tiny bungalow. I told her to get a
suite at the Beverly Hills Hotel and tell them your house is being
renovated, because she couldn't have them visit that little thousand
square foot place out in the Valley.
We moved all her gold records and paintings and took Mary's old Rolls
Royce and put that in the driveway. Once again, it was my old training
from Motown that at all costs you keep up the star's image.
Review: Financially speaking she was?
Turner: Broke. The nice beautiful Rolls Royce couldn't go over 30 miles
per hour. She spent about 30 grand to have the car reconditioned, which
I thought was a bad move. About a year later she sold it for like 20
grand, so she lost money on it. But she had been badly ripped off. Long
gone were the huge mansion and the home up in Hollywood Hills. She was
living in Studio City on Eureka Drive in a small bungalow right off a
main thoroughfare with one bathroom and two little bedrooms. There were
about eight people living there. She was still working, but not making
what she used to.

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Review: Tony, you're into real estate. You've got a house on Long
Island, an apartment in Manhattan's Upper East Side and a house in
Florida. How'd you get so smart when it came to business?
Turner: I paid attention to the business and money whereas the stars
paid attention to being a star. I didn't have someone to make my
decisions for me. I made my own decisions. If you're making money it's
always best to count your own money. You don't need someone to count
your money for you.
If I'm gonna go broke, I'd rather go broke because I had the money and
spent it all, not because I had it and only got 10 percent of it because
somebody else spent it all.
There's no reason why Mary Wilson should have ended up broke, or
Florence Ballard while Berry Gordy ends up living in Bel-Air. There has
to be some balance, so I watched the mistakes they made and paid close
attention. Of course, I didn't have their drug habits either, which ate
up a lot of money.
Review: So your message to aspiring artists today would be:
Turner: Look at what happened to these talented people that were known
throughout the world - living legends - the whole bit. Do not let this
happen to you.
Count your money, honey.


The Tony Turner Interview
Exclusive By Gary James c.Nov 2001
Review East Coast
Correspondent
Review Magazine Issue 512

[SeainDennis]

Thanks for this article CP! Interesting comments from Tony! Very insightful about the life of a road manager. It's sounds like an all out stressful job & could only wonder what it must've been like being on the road with the likes of David, Eddie & Mary. Whew! I don't agree though that there wasn't any reason for them to end up broke. I understand the perspective his observation came from, but he had to remember that these were young people who were taught to just how to present themselves to the public, not how manage their financial affairs. It also didn't help that the contracts that they signed wasn't structured to give them any security either. All & all, it was a good article that gave young people some insight to avoid the pitfalls of stardom.

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Yep, Seain, the life of a road manager is very stressful; I know! For the life of me, I couldn't do it. It takes a special person to deal with that kind of situation. You never get any rest dealing with everything all the while trying to keep your crew contained.
I think part of the reason they were broke was the sporadic touring and outstanding debts. once you get paid, everyone has their hands out. I think Tony knows more than we do about their finances. I'm just sorry that they were never paid what they were worth. This could have resolved a lot of financial woes which would have given them the opportunity to pull things together.

[SeainDennis]

I guess I should have said that it would've been helpful had they been getting their royalties for their recordings, except for Eddie, who signed away his. Maybe that might've offset the expenses they incurred on the road. It might not have been much but at least, it would've been additional income. This is all wishful thinking, of course. But I agree that it does take a person with thick skin to do what Tony did. Thank God it was only a hobby on his part.

[Blondie]

I'm just now reading this, CP, you have got some interesting stuff over here. Well, I for one, agree with Tony. You have to remember Tony was younger than most of the acts that he was road manager for (at least 6 to ten years) so, I can not believe them going broke had anything to do with their age. I think that it was the "Motown Mentality" at that time. I think that when the acts got older, they started to notice different things in regards to their financial situation and this is where the conflicts started. This is when the drug usage, alcohol useage, etc. escalated because of this control Motown had over them, their music, their contracts and dayum near their lives. I think that because Tony was not directly a product of Motown (even though he was young), his foundation was laid by his parents (mom and stepdad), and not Motown. So I can see why Tony stated that there is no reason any of them should have wound up broke. They got caught up in being a "Star" instead of handling their business and when they tried to handle it, Motown had the reigns on them so tight 'til you either roll with Motown or you were out on your behind - Period - point blank. This is some interesting stuff. Alright - I'll holla later.. Hotep!

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I think that was part of Motown's plan...to keep the acts focused on being a 'star' while they focused on making money off them. They kept them pumped up in order to keep them from paying attention to their finances. You are right, when they started questioning their book keeping practices, then the shyt started. There was no room for people that questioned Motown. Those who did were made an example of, thus keeping a hold on the rest of their acts cuz they did not want to end up like so and so.

[mona2400]

I just came across this interview and it is great - as well as the insightfull comments from other fans of The Temptations. I met Tony Turner twice this past month at The Tempataions Reviews shows in Florida. Dennis, David, and Tony appear to be on great terms. The Review was wonderfull. It is also so great how Dennis Edwards spotlights all of the guys in the group and lets them have there turn to WOW the crowds. Of all the many different lineups of Temptations over the years - this one is among the Very Best. I hope to get or I hope someone does an update with tony and of course Mr. Dennis Edwards - I understand that there is taped footage of Dennis and Tony appearing together on the old JOAN RIVERS SHOW - any body got it.

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I don't know where mine is. Doesn't Tony have that footage?